Daily Kos

CNN suing for right to film the dead - UPDATED

by lesliet

Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:18:11 PM PDT

Anderson Cooper just said
In response to official government statements that the media will be barred from showing photographs of bodies of dead Americans in New Orleans, today CNN filed a lawsuit saying the denial of airing the pictures prohibits us from fully and fairly covering this story. The government cannot be allowed to hinder the free flow of information. That's what we say in the lawsuit. We'll bring you more on that later tonight.

Well good for them!

Update [2005-9-9 20:12:41 by lesliet]:

More from Anderson Cooper:

CNN has obtained a restraining order to allow access to the search and recovery of the dead from Hurricane Katrina. CNN filed suit in federal court arguing that the announcement by FEMA and NO city officials that reporters would be barred from covering the body recovery effort was unconstitutional and in violation of the First Amendment.
Update [2005-9-9 20:12:41 by lesliet]:

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Permalink | 242 comments

  •  Anderson Cooper (4.00 / 10)

    kicks ass. It's amazing what happens to some of these guys when you take away their anchor desk.

    WaPo Prints My Letter!!!

    by Kudos on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:13:38 PM PDT

  •  This is VERY important... (4.00 / 16)

    I really hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to see a possible whitewash occurring.

    1. No photos of the dead
    2. DHS saying dead is far fewer than predicted.

    Frankly, after seeing what I've seen for 5 years, I don't trust them.  I just don't trust them without photographic proof.

    THANK YOU FOR NOT IMPEACHING THE WAR CRIMINALS AND TERRORIST ENABLERS. Next Stop: Iran. You're on a roll, Congress! -- FUCK, YEAH!!

    by STOP George on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:14:42 PM PDT

    •  NBC isn't buying it. (4.00 / 4)

      David Shuster just reported "In some areas they aren't finding as many bodies as expected 0 in some areas they are finding more." He then stated some officials still fear the number of dead to be around 40,000.

      WaPo Prints My Letter!!!

      by Kudos on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:17:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Total agreement (3.87 / 8)

      I hate having to think this way, but I think you're right.

      by SusanG on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:17:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that's what i thought when i heard that... (4.00 / 4)

      they aare gonna lie about how many dead there are.  and they'll get away with it because they can.  its friggin frightening!

      by ejpoeta on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:19:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Body Count (4.00 / 2)

        They still think they're in Iraq, where they can scare the reporters away and hide everything.  U back in Amerika now, Boy!  I thought Gen. Honore was gonna be a real straight shooter, but I've been seeing apolgia for Bushface from him, and now he sez he won't permit filming of the bodies.  Think Bush promised him that fourth star if he'd cover his Texas booty?

        by serrano on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:53:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Straight shooter, my ass! (none / 0)

          You're absolutely right!

          He may be doing an honorable job managing things down there, but he's on the record stating that things were tickity-boo with respect to the response -- calling anything else "bullshit" at one point.

          That's when my spidey senses went up.

          Now the "no photo" thing.

          I definitely believe he is an apologist for the feds.  Proactive apologist at that.

          THANK YOU FOR NOT IMPEACHING THE WAR CRIMINALS AND TERRORIST ENABLERS. Next Stop: Iran. You're on a roll, Congress! -- FUCK, YEAH!!

          by STOP George on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:35:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  alas, that's his job (none / 0)

            Follow orders and pretend everything is tickety-boo.

            Personally, I don't care what he says to the press, as long as he gets the right things done.

            Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

            by hrh on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 08:06:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If... (none / 0)

              He's distorting the truth -- that is very important to me.

              Especially when you have reporters taking his word like he's God.

              THANK YOU FOR NOT IMPEACHING THE WAR CRIMINALS AND TERRORIST ENABLERS. Next Stop: Iran. You're on a roll, Congress! -- FUCK, YEAH!!

              by STOP George on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 08:34:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you can't expect whistleblowers in the military (none / 0)

                That's not their culture.

                I agree it would be preferable if he told the truth about what's happening there, but that's not one of his objectives.  He's there to win a war - in this case, secure the area, rescue people etc.  He doesn't give a shit about what he says to reporters.

                This is one of the reasons why we don't want to deploy the military unless absolutely necessary.

                Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

                by hrh on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 09:22:38 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't expect him to "whistle-blow" (none / 0)

                  I DO expect him to do his job.

                  That is why I'm disturbed at him blurting out "bullshit" when it comes to political questions asked by reporters, when others are there to do the bullshitting beside him.

                  I'm sorry, he comes across as a political apologist, but that not surprising in the era of 1984.

                  THANK YOU FOR NOT IMPEACHING THE WAR CRIMINALS AND TERRORIST ENABLERS. Next Stop: Iran. You're on a roll, Congress! -- FUCK, YEAH!!

                  by STOP George on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 11:22:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  anderson cooper announced at end of 360 (none / 0)

          that they got a restraining order against that. said it was unconstitutional.  so glad he's not backing down!

          by ejpoeta on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:55:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  John Wayne Sold Out (none / 0)

          You're exactly right, STOP George--I followed the same progression w/the guy.  I'm sure Ray Nagin is disappointed.  He did initially demand his troops show respect for the people, but now...sold out to the Boss.  Same pattern as Iraq--hide the bodies, maybe they won't realize...last time it took months and months to get a legal decision in Delaware, this time, thanx to AC and CNN, they've thwarted these nouveau police state tactics cloaked in faux concern for the relatives, who, by the way, have been separated and shipped all over the place in a way chillingly reminiscent of slave auctions...

          by serrano on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 09:18:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Agree with you, this crowd can't (4.00 / 3)

      be trusted. And how can they even begin to surmise how many may or may not be dead since they haven't entered the thousands of houses with water still up to the eaves.

      I hate being played for a fool.

      by towit on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:27:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's exactly (4.00 / 3)

      what i was just saying to my husband.

      cover up.

      big time.

      Tinfoil hat mounted in place, firmly affixed.

      KO sez..."All Hail the Prophetic Gut!" Also, Visit Scenic Buttercupia!

      by JLongs on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:43:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ha! I stopped believing (4.00 / 2)

      anything anyone in this administration says a long time ago.  They are not to be trusted!  And I posted in a comment a few days back that I knew the government was going to try to hide the dead - just like in Iraq - because the true number would reveal how appalling and incompetent the response to his disaster was.  I agree with you, but then again I'm a conspiracy theorist when it comes to this administration.

      We Need REGIME CHANGE

      McSame, John McCain, just like Bush.

      by Sally in SF on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:47:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Apparently once you get in the WhiteHouse (4.00 / 4)

        you lose all your grey matter, and your brain turns to mush, not to mention you forget everything that's ever happened before.

        Do these guys not remember Nixon? Watergate, where covering up a third rate burglary forced the president to resign? Do they forget Clinton? Where trying to make things look better DID get him impeached?

        Do they think that trying to cover up the number of dead is going to even WORK? Hell, even the Chinese can't manage to control stuff like that, and they've got way more experience.

        All they're doing is making things look worse, and making it harder for anybody to support them.

        So, go on, try! Please, try! Please, look like worse morons than you already are, stick up for your guys no matter how incompetent they are, try to keep the press out so they get totally pissed off and refuse to let this drop no matter how long it goes on. Do, please do! Turn everybody against you!

        Would you like another anvil? I'm sure we can find one...

        by mmacdDE on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:32:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  They need to or noone will believe them. (none / 1)

      the essence of contract is agreement not coercion or obedience

      by Fernando Poo on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:10:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's exactly what I thought! (4.00 / 3)

      We can't ALL be crazy, even if we are "far left"libruls!

      "There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." - Gandhi

      by hopesprings on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:12:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's why I logged on just now: (none / 0)

        to see if anyone else round here was getting the same unpleasant drift.

        Looks like I'm far from the only one. It's beyond uncanny.

        God bless our tinfoil hearts.

        by aitchdee on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:50:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Include me... (3.50 / 2)

          When I first heard of the restrictions on photography, that was my initial thought. Then the next day (or was it the second day after... they blur...) FEMA reports that they're finding "fewer bodies than expected" and my bullshit detector went off-scale.

          Vast numbers of people have been moved to numerous locations with, probably, little documentation - witness all the folks trying to locate people that they saw being rescued by boat or helicopter. I wonder if that confusion is being deliberately aggravated to sow more confusion.

          On Dateline this evening, there was a bit about a worker in (I think) the Astrodome trying to help people locate family members. The guy they talked to had two "hits" in two days. It was mentioned that there was "no central database" and they needed to surf literally dozens of websites. I myself spent several frantic days looking for an acquaintance - fortunately I heard through a mutual friend that she was safe with relatives in Florida. Point is, though, that you'd think that having software ready to provide such a central database would be a very basic FEMA function.

          But back to how trustworthy any official death toll is likely to be, a large number of the dead being poor and/or (now, if not before) unemployed makes it easier to sweep their deaths under the rug too. At least I assume the dead are mostly poor; those who could afford to evacuate were far more likely to do so before Katrina, obviously.

          by AndreMA on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 09:00:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I wrote about this on other blogs, (4.00 / 8)

      including my own, but I'll repeat it here.

      I'm a biological archaeologist by training.  That means, I deal with dead people, mostly those who are still in the ground, or have, through some act, natural or otherwise, have become disinterred.  I've worked for the Connecticut State Archaeologist, the Pequot Nation, the Center for American Archaeology, Wesleyan University, and a few sundry others (I'm currently the archaeologist for the Eastern Abenaki.)

      Most burials in New Orleans are above ground, which makes them much more vulnerable to being disturbed, particularly during a flood.  Due to modern embalming techniques, it's difficult for the average Joe to discern between a recently deceased person who has been in the toxic soup known as Lake George for ten or more days, or someone who died a few years ago (even ten or more) and has been floating around in the same toxic soup.

      The confusion over dead versus very dead provides this Administration with a huge way out of declaring a real death toll.  I personally believe that many recently dead will be classified as previously dead.  

      However in addition to the mortuary loophole, one cannot underestimate the number of victims who were swept out to sea or back into Lake P., or who were taken away by alligators.  Earlier today, I noticed this admission, placed at the very end of a Reuters report on how so many fewer bodies were being recovered:

      In the rural areas east of St. Bernard Parish, some bodies will never be found because alligators will have taken them away, locals said.
       I looked it up, and there are 1.5 million wild alligators in Louisiana.  At least half of those are large enough to endanger a human.

      The Bushies will whatever they can to fake the numbers.  This is why I continue to argue that we have to have our own folks on the ground, reporting the facts.

      by mbw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:17:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for pointing that out! (none / 0)

        Interesting points!  How prevalent or how much of a threat is the alligator population in the New Orleans urban area (the area surrounded by the levees, currently?  I've heard and seen images with alligators, but it hasn't been reported regularly on the news.

        Also, aren't they able to check if the body contains embalming fluid?  That would seem to me, as a layman, to be quite easy to determine.

        THANK YOU FOR NOT IMPEACHING THE WAR CRIMINALS AND TERRORIST ENABLERS. Next Stop: Iran. You're on a roll, Congress! -- FUCK, YEAH!!

        by STOP George on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:51:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Embalming fluid? You mean the same mix (none / 0)

          of chemicals now found in most of the waters surrounding New Orleans.

          Also, it's important to note that rehydrating a corpse, even an imballed one, will drastically alter its chemical make up.

          But the short answer is, yes, to a trained eye, one can distinguish between the dead and very dead, even after all that time in the water.  But, will FEMA actually hire professionals who can, or will, make that distinction.

          Remember, FEMA's former chief, Joe Allbaugh, got into hot water in Texas over FuneralGate.  Expect to see many of the morticians brought in from Texas and Robert Waltrip's mortuary business (one of the largest in the country.)

          by mbw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:00:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And regarding alligators in NOLA... (none / 0)

          A number of eyewitness reports claim that alligators were a serious problem in New Orleans.  

          by mbw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:16:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  biological archaeology, coffins, alligators (none / 0)

        Wow!  That is SO cool!  Especially that you're working with the Native Americans of New England.  What's your blog?

        Also, where exactly are you located, and do you have any expertise in dating rock carvings and stone constructions?  I'm near Mt Washington in NH and there's a very interesting site here where strange old carvings have been found.  In the same area there's a stone-slab table and a rectangular construction of stones that looks like a house foundation but is much too small, and is divided in half.  So I'm wondering if it could be a tomb of some sort.  Nobody has ever excavated it, that I know of, and nobody knows its history.  We're consumed by curiosity and would love to have a knowledgeable person take a look at it.

        About long-dead people: is it really that easy for modern-day coffins to pop open?  

        About alligators: on one of my visits to the New Orleans area, I took a bayou tour to see some alligators.  The Cajun dude who took us around in the boat told us that while alligators will kill humans and large animals, they don't eat them right away.  The way their jaws are constructed, they can't chew tough stuff well - they have very little up-and-down motion, only side-to-side.  Instead, they drag the carcasses underwater and wedge them in among the roots and rocks, and wait until decomposition makes the flesh soft enough so that they can pull pieces off.

        So it looks like the victims of Katrina, pre-drowned and conveniently ripened, would be the ideal food for those millions of gators.

        I just thought I'd share that tidbit with you, since you deal with dead people!

        Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

        by hrh on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 08:57:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I work with New England Indians because I am... (none / 0)

          an New England (Maine) Indian.

          The blog is Wampum.  I won't link to it as it's pretty easy to google for (first result.)

          We're Maine residents, so checking something out in NH would generally be rather simple, but we're currently on the road for a few years.  Tomorrow, we head south, eventually to join the Katrina effort.

          by mbw on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 03:11:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  cool! (none / 0)

            Your blog is a good read.  Thanks.

            I'm interested in Native American history, culture and spirituality.  I'm not an Indian myself but I'm an animist and a shamanic healer, so there's a lot that resonates with my own beliefs and practices.

            Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

            by hrh on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 09:49:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  However, (none / 0)

        won't the numbers of missing eventually give us a pretty accurate picture?

        I mean, most people have someone that might miss them.

        The kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it.

        by MasonMcD on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 09:27:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Also (4.00 / 5)

    Anderson just reported that FEMA is discontinuing the debit cards for evacuees.  I wonder if this is the real reason for Brownie being reassigned.  They probably heard from their base that they did not want to see money handed out to "those people".

    "There is no barrier of people's acceptance. The only barrier is the media. Remember what people cannot see or hear, they cannot think about."

    by dugjxn on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:14:54 PM PDT

    •  they've been talking about that all day. (none / 1)

      and one of the anchors made a good point.  a lot of these people's banks no longer exist... they didn't have national banks.  how are they gonna get direct deposit or cash checks!

      by ejpoeta on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:23:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And (none / 0)

        I thought the cards were the way around if they didn't have a bank account or if their bank no longer existed, but I guess it is back to the old way:

        Hurricane victims at other locations will have to apply for expedited aid through the agency's traditional route -- filling out information on FEMA's Web site to receive direct bank deposits, FEMA spokeswoman Natalie Rule said.

        And for what I suspect is the real reason for it's discontinuance:

        "The question is, how do you separate the needy from those who just want a $2,000 handout," said Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski, a Republican.

        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9273033/

        "There is no barrier of people's acceptance. The only barrier is the media. Remember what people cannot see or hear, they cannot think about."

        by dugjxn on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:28:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This administration just has no imagination (none / 1)

        for reality.

        Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

        by annefrank on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:52:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Fema cards/checks whatever have to be spent by (none / 0)

      September 25th is what I just heard.
      WTF?

      Proud sponsor of Lithium Cola.

      by cosette on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:23:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What happened is.... (4.00 / 4)

      ....they widely broadcast this to all of white America (that they were giving out $2k debit cards), but it was largely untrue. I know. A lawyer-evacuee friend of mine who ended up in Arkansas tried to get one. They told her they didn't know what she was talking about. They have given out a few, and then carefully photographed a recipient or two. Then they put the brakes on it: all the glory of helping out the evacuees, without actually emptying your wallet on them. My Republican Weathervane friends believe the "these people" got more than they deserved and have ranted about them receiving debit cards, and aboiut Eddie Compass (NOPD Chief) who apparently suggested that the police should be housed on a cruise ship. Right now they are house --at least some of them are-- in the Maison Dupuy on Toulouse in the French Quarter. So, the trick here was make it look like you are being grandiose, and then presto chango! No debit cards! White Republicans will only remember the offer of debit cards; not the retraction. This gang is good at one thing: Propoganda

      Please don't tell me you feel sorry for Ben. Ben is a well cared for dalmatian and has not been harmed by my political views.

      by Bensdad on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:11:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  safety (none / 0)

      there could be safety reasons too -- if everyone in the world knows that evacuees have 2K in their pockets-- it could be make them ripe to be crime victims on top of hurricane/flood/bureacracy victims.

      tikkun olam -- heal the world

      by bjeanh1 on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:21:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  $2,000 per household (4.00 / 2)

      I could never figure out how they were going to give $2,000 per household, considering that families are split apart.  So, if Dad is in Houston and Mom is in Arkansas, one of them would get the $2,000 and the other one would be screwed as far as buying any necessities, etc.  

      Donate to ePluribus Media

      by lilnubber on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:32:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You would think (none / 0)

        They could give each of them a $1k card, or each a card with the same account number...

        ...but that would make too much sense.

        (-3.63, -3.03): Dkos' rabid right wing
        John McCain. The President lobbyists have been waiting for.

        by someone else on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:31:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You'd also think... (none / 1)

        ..there would be a per person allotment, so that larger families would be able to support more children if need be.  

        For instance: $700 per person age 12 to adult, $500 per child 3-12, $600 per infant or toddler. Maybe senior citizens a bit more than other adults because they have more health/physical needs.

        by cathy b on